Below is a mostly unabridged interview with FMFC players Carl Schneider and Drew Conner, edited for brevity/grammar/spelling/accuracy. We’d like to thank Carl and Drew for their time on a Thursday evening. If you’re a Patreon subscriber ($5/mo), you can listen to the interview audio in full.
(Zoom Voice: RECORDING IN PROGRESS)
Andrew: She’s very authoritarian, Grant. I’m telling you.
Grant: I think that’s part of why you like her that much is that-
Andrew: It might be.
Grant: … she’s got that authoritative voice, like, “Recording started.”
Andrew: I told you. She’s like a stern librarian. Like, “Quiet down back there! Goddamned kids.” Anyway, Carl, Drew, thank you for joining us. I know you guys played for the same college soccer team and now you play for the same pro soccer team. We’ll get into that in a minute. Drew, did they banish you to solitary confinement after your red card last night? Is that why it’s so dark in there?
Drew: Yeah, those US soccer refs, they got me locked up here.
Grant: Do you need me to bring you some books?
Drew: Dude, some snacks, maybe some Gummy Bears.
Grant: Or some pizza rolls?
Drew: Whatever. Yeah, man, that was wild last night. I still don’t feel like that was a red card. I’m kind of like-
Grant: It wasn’t.
Drew: I’m still upset about that. Carl knows, back in college I liked to lay into some tackles, and I’m a pretty aggressive player. Never tried to hurt somebody. I think I caught him a little late, but the overreaction from the other team, the heat of the moment, I think, just the ref reached for one and went to the other and boom, in my first game, I’m out. Crazy.
Grant: He made an absolute meal of it, too.
Andrew: The tackle on Abdou should have been a yellow card at least, which happened right before that. Anyway. Drew, you can field the first question. How does it feel to be among elite company like Lionel Messi and Luis Suárez who both were also sent off with a straight red in debuts for their clubs?
[Grant cackling]
Drew: What a way to come in, right? Yeah, man, it’s funny. I got a lot of… My mom was like, “Oh, honey. I’m so sorry.” Honestly, some of my friends were like, “Dude, that was awesome.” Just mixed reviews from everybody but it’s just-
Grant: Who gave you the hardest review, Drew?
Drew: My buddy, Dax McCarty. I think him and Patrick Doody messaged me in a group chat. They were just talking shit basically.
Grant: Like, “Dude, what?” That’s great.
Drew: Anyway. Yeah, man, so what’s up? Is this for an article? Is this a podcast?
Andrew: It’s a website right now. To give you some background on who we are… Kyle’s actually on the Flock board right now. I was the figurehead person for the Flock the first three years. Started New Dogma two years ago as a fanzine, and I was planning on doing an actual print version of it. Because of the pandemic… Football fanzines, you need to be able to be in person and selling them outside the grounds and stuff. It’s a way to spread culture primarily. But that didn’t happen. So I decided to start the website. That’s what we are focusing on now, really trying to help the fan base connect with the club in a slightly different way that focuses on covering the team from a fan perspective and-
Drew: I love that. That’s so cool.
Andrew: Yeah, it’s what we’re doing. We like to have players on. We talked with Matt last week going into the Tucson game. I’m hoping that we can get Jim Launder on one of these if we can teach him how to use Zoom.
Drew: Oh, so good. That’s my guy. That’s my guy.
Andrew: Him and Keith Tiemeyer are some of my favorite people out at the club.
Grant: Yeah, Keith’s great. Also too, Drew, the three of us, we’re pretty eclectic guys, I’d like to think, so we do things other than just talk about soccer. We talk about music and culture and other things like that as well because we don’t want it to just be… because we believe that football and soccer goes beyond the realms of just what’s on the pitch. It goes into the community and goes into life as well.
Drew: Of course.
Grant: So we want to give a take on the club and on the sport that isn’t always approached in this country.
Drew: Love that.
Andrew: This next question is for both of you. How does it feel to back in Madison playing here professionally after playing here on the same Badgers team?
Drew: Carl?
Carl: Well, as I’ve told you guys before, for me to be back on the team, it’s really awesome because being away from the club for a year, I realized some things I maybe took for granted the first two years, the way the club treats the players, the fan engagement, even just the level of play. It’s really refreshing to be back with Forward. From the Madison standpoint of it, for me, I’m living my best life. Me and my girlfriend have a condo now. I still get to play soccer every day, which I love obviously, but now I get to do in the comfort of my own backyard with all my loved ones. Yeah, I can’t ask for more than that.
Grant: Amen, brother.
Drew: It’s a weird one for me. Carl, I think for you it’s home. You grew up here and stuff, at least in the area, right?
Carl: Yeah.
Drew: You were a Madison 56er, when something’s home, like I’m coming from a situation where, like last year, I felt like I was settling into the club I was at, and some unfortunate things took place that couldn’t really continue for the whole squad and just the club’s standing. So for me, it was like, oh, what are my options, and where do I like to play? Madison’s like a second home for me next to Chicago, so it feels good to be back in a different way. In my mind, Madison was always the place I went to school. So coming back to it now, I’m seeing a whole new side of Madison that I’ve never experienced or seen before. I stuck to State Street and Langdon, and now I’m living over here on the East Side. I’m like, “Oh, Madison’s got so much more to offer than that little bubble I was living in on campus.” Occasionally I went downtown for a concert when I was in school, but other than that, never really ventured over here. It’s really pretty, and I’m really digging it. I got my spot over here. I love the bar food over at… Ooh, what is it? It’s on Williamson, aka Willy Street. I’m learning.
Grant: Let’s see. Weary Traveler?
Drew: At 730, that intersection. What is it called? I’ll find it for you guys in a second. I’m blanking on it. I go there all the time for the burgers.
Carl: That is interesting, Drew, because you’re right. When we were in school even me being from Madison, we pretty rarely ventured off campus, so it’s cool for you to see the young professional side of Madison.
Drew: That’s what I’m getting to see. The place is Mickey’s.
Grant: Oh. Male: Oh, legendary.
Drew: That’s my jam. That’s my jam.
Grant: They have a great breakfast, by the way, too.
Drew: What?
Andrew: Dude, literally, I have dreams about their tofu scramble there.
Grant: Drew, go there for breakfast, bro.
Drew: Okay, that’s a good tip. See, that’s the stuff I need to know.
Grant: I guess that kind of dovetails well into my next question which was, what’s the biggest difference for you, Drew, coming to Forward Madison? You grew up in the Fire Academy, came here, played in the MLS, played in Championship. What’s it like coming back now and playing for a club in Madison?
Drew: I don’t know. It kind of feels like I did the whole circle. I started in Chicago, Madison, back to Chicago, down to… It just all came back, like this wheel, and it all came back again to Madison, which it’s kind of cool. Also, shout out to my boy, Carl Schneider, because, yeah, we did play together. We had some awesome, awesome wins, some awful losses too, a couple of losses, too, the whole experience together. So it is cool to get to play with Carl again. That’s the beauty of soccer, man, is that things just come around and people come back, and they recirculate. There’s a couple guys on the team that I’m either reconnecting with on another team or a guy like Eric Leonard who I’ve known for so long, and we have all these mutual friends, but never got the chance to play with him. So that’s cool. That’s cool too.
Grant: Yeah, he’s alright.
Drew: He’s the best.
Kyle: I was actually going to say it’s funny because when you were talking about being back in Madison, obviously seeing this other side and for you, Carl, obviously growing up here. If you had to talk about Madison to someone, to a player that was interested, like, “Maybe I’m considering playing for Madison,” how would you describe it? What would you say? Obviously, you had your State Street experience. That’s going to be a little bit different than now but just in general Madison as a whole.
Carl: Well, for me, I think I obviously include the college town aspect of it. I don’t think you can go anywhere in the nation and get a better college town experience. I think with the pandemic, guys in the last couple years maybe didn’t get the Badger game-day vibes, and I think that’ll be really cool for the guys this year. Then also being right in between two bodies of water is pretty unique. Who doesn’t love an afternoon on the lake? So that’s another thing that Madison has to offer for guys coming in.
Drew: It’s a Midwestern paradise.
Grant: Andrew and I-
Drew: It’s funny.
Grant: … were [crosstalk 00:12:22].
Drew: Sorry to cut you off here.
Grant: No, go ahead, man.
Drew: But to Carl’s point, some of the guys that don’t know about UW, like Carl said, these game days, they’re going to be like, “What’s going on?” They don’t get it. They don’t get it. They don’t get it yet. You’re right, Carl. That will be fun.
Grant: In 2020, Andrew and I were trying to get Alex Mangels from Chattanooga to come here and play goal. We were trying to sell him on the fact that we have three lakes and only one highway. We were close. He was [crosstalk 00:12:59].
Kyle: We didn’t have mountains, though, for the [inaudible 00:13:01] about. That’s the only issue.
Grant: He’s writing ski reports now, so I don’t know, man.
Drew: That’s funny.
Andrew: Like takes you in different directions sometimes. Speaking of that, both of you guys’s careers took you to Europe at one point, right? Carl, you were playing in Åmål in Sweden-
Carl: Åmål.
Andrew: … and Drew, you were playing at Znojmo, is that right, in the Czech Republic?
Drew: You got that right. You got that right.
Andrew: What was your experience there? What did you learn? What did you like about it? Drew, I’m imagining you drank a lot of Pilsner living in the Czech Republic. Maybe share a little bit about what that experience was like for you guys.
Carl: You go first, Drew.
Drew: The road that got me there was very weird and random, so I was really taking this chance going over there because that’s what I felt like was the right thing to do in my career at that point was go for a new experience and get away. It was like a life moment for me, too, just moving away and doing this new thing and having this sense of independence and stuff. Czech people, they just go hard. They just go hard in everything they do. It’s a very beautiful thing, and it’s something that can breed a lot of chaos too, because everyone’s like… especially with the soccer culture, if you lose, you work harder. The answer to everything is to work harder there, and there really aren’t any excuses. They don’t really believe in… If you strain a muscle, they’re like, “Throw some ice on it.” That’s it. So it was very much so like that. The quality of soccer was pretty good. I would say it was somewhere between a USL Championship level and maybe leaning USL League One, because I was in the second tier of the Czech Republic. Got to play in some really old stadiums. Yeah, man, just a very adventurous, intense experience over there. I don’t know. Did you want a specific story?
Grant: That was great, man.
Drew: Okay, cool.
Andrew: I want to hear about Carl’s time in Sweden.
Carl: The disappointing thing about my time in Sweden was the level was not super high. I started in the fourth division which is actually the sixth tier. So when I tell people that they’re not blown away. But the fortunate thing for me is I went to a club that was aspiring to move up. They brought in a bunch of internationals, Brazilians, Bosnians. We actually had a great team, and we got promoted two out of the three years I was there. As far as the soccer went, for me, it was very valuable because being at that low level, different guys on the team were taking it either not seriously enough or they just had other stuff going on, and so I had to really learn to push myself and get what I could get out of the situation. Then from a living aspect, Sweden’s awesome. Everyone speaks English, so the transition was really smooth. Everyone was extremely friendly. Part of that is maybe because it was a small town in Sweden. But I went to Stockholm, and it was a really awesome city, tons of cool old buildings, like Drew said with the stadiums. I love it. I miss it. There’s a part of me that misses it for sure, and I hope to be back some day.
Andrew: Super cool. Grant, hit them with the NISA question.
Grant: We’ve heard some pretty crazy stories about NISA. What is your favorite NISA story or your most outlandish NISA story?
Kyle: I think outlandish explains itself, doesn’t it?
Grant: Outlandish and favorite could be one and the same.
Drew: Carl, I think you might have some better ones than me here.
Carl: I’m just trying to figure out which one I can say without-
Drew: Without screwing somebody over.
Carl: This great thing, the club as a whole.
Grant: If the club no longer exists, Carl, you can say whatever you want.
Carl: They do still exist, though. [inaudible 00:18:28].
Drew: You got them.
Carl: I would say probably the most wild story, so NISA has a preseason tournament in the spring. They didn’t have it this year, so I guess it was the last couple years they had it. It’s called Legends Cup. It was in Chattanooga this past year. The first day of the tournament before any games were played, they had a equality event. My team, Michigan Stars, were heading down to our meeting room for dinner. We see all the other teams walking around in their uniforms. I thought it was just something to do with media, maybe Michigan Stars were in the later slot. So we just went to dinner. People started getting texts from guys they knew on other teams saying, “Where are you guys? The equality event is right now.” As it turned out, one of the higher ups for Michigan Stars decided we were not going to go. When confronted about it, he gave us a combination answer of he didn’t know it was happening, he wasn’t allowed to give a speech at it so he decided not to go, and all of us were free to go. He just choose not to go. That did not paint us in the best light for the rest of the season, and we got a lot of vitriol from opposing fans. And I’m glad to be gone.
Grant: Is this the same owner that’s there now?
Carl: Yes.
Grant: Sounds like a very quirky individual, Carl.
Carl: Quirky’s one way to put it.
Andrew: How about you, Drew?
Drew: I don’t know. I think NISA provided a really cool opportunity for one year because it was just a new thing happening and because I knew Peter Wilt, the guy that started it, and because I had a relationship with CJ Brown. To me, it was this blank canvas of something that we could create for Chicago that was an alternative to what the Fire were doing. It paid homage to music and music history and culture in Chicago. So I saw it as being something that I could be a part of for a very long time because the possibilities were endless. Chicago has a rich house music history. The soccer’s amazing. You can put the stadium somewhere closer to the Southwest Side or you could go West Side with it. You could have a ton of people come out and maybe listen to music before a game and see a DJ set and it would be this cross-culture. Unfortunately, unfortunately, the owner, similar experience to Carl’s, I don’t know, he seemed like some of the stuff that was going on was a little bit shady. The team had gone and rented out SeatGeek Stadium every game, so the bar was set very high from the jump. You got Peter Wilt; you got CJ Brown. It seems like the pieces are in place for what would be the new White Sox team of Chicago for soccer or something. We did not hit those numbers in attendance, and it crushed the team. It crushed the team. Look, it’s funny, because the level of NISA, and Carl can attest to this, there were a lot of decent players in NISA.
Andrew: Oh, yeah.
Drew: There were some decent, decent players. The team that we had, which by the way was comprised of nine of my best friends… It made for a hilarious year. When you’re surrounded by all these people you’re close with, the funniest stuff, the funniest stuff happens. So that was awesome playing with those guys. Shout out to all those guys. We had a decent squad. But the league was so travel demanding. The training pitches were really, really bad turf. It just wasn’t like the most… They tried to make it a professional set up with the stadium, but it just wasn’t the full package. It didn’t come even close to what Forward Madison has going here in terms of everything, like fans, a full staff, all these things. Yeah, man, it just kind of died out due to some ownership issues. It was a really tough thing for me to get over. It was just a tough pill to swallow there, this thing that I saw so much potential [crosstalk 00:24:30] in my head. If the pieces and if the process was put in right for that club from the jump, it could have been something unbelievable. So everything, the concept, the brand, the idea was a cool thing, but unfortunately, the business side, it just wasn’t executed in the right way to the right scale.
Kyle: I was going to say, especially being the captain and scoring the first goal for them, obviously that impact is also going to have a lot of meaning to you as well, be in that hometown team, captain it, lead it, score the first goal, and, like you said, have your best friends on it, I can imagine it was a tough [crosstalk 00:25:15].
Drew: Everything about it, Kyle, everything about it from being a part of that process really with CJ, picking players. I see so many good players especially from Chicago fall through the cracks when the Fire doesn’t work out, and they don’t have a place to come home to. Chicago’s a big enough city for two teams especially one at the lower level to succeed and create a community around. The city still deserves that, and I hope it happens one day.
Grant: Seeing and just hearing how passionate that you are about it, Drew, is something that you may look into later in your career, trying to do something like this?
Drew: Look, I’ve always been a fan of starting new projects and new endeavors. With the team, look, if the opportunity presents itself and it makes sense in my life, all that grownup stuff, it’s just got to make sense. Yeah, man, look, I still have a very good relationship with Peter. Peter’s done what he’s done, and he’s a part of soccer history in many ways. I don’t think he’s going to give up on that project. So who knows? Something like that could come back around.
Andrew: It’s true.
Drew: I wouldn’t see it from a playing perspective.
Grant: That was more my question, I think, is, do you see yourself more from the behind-the-scenes perspective or from the front office perspective doing something like that?
Drew: I don’t know, man. The right pieces would have to be in place, but as a career, that’s something I’ve thought of, yeah.
Andrew: We’ve got a few more questions. Hopefully, you guys have a few extra minutes for us. Definitely feel free to drop off if you don’t. I had a question for Carl. What did you miss the most about Madison when you were playing at the Stars?
Carl: Again, this is going… I hope no Michigan Stars are New Dogma readers.
Andrew: [laughs] No one’s going to read this, Carl. You’re good.
Carl: Really what I missed the most from Madison was the structured trainings, where the cones are set up. You’re going straight from one drill to the next to the next. It’s very efficient. It’s beneficial. You’re getting better when you train. In Michigan, it was disorganized. We’d be doing the same drill for an hour, an hour-15. It’s such a breath of fresh air to be in with Coach Matt and the whole staff and getting better every day.
Andrew: I thought you were going to say Culver’s, but that is a way more interesting answer.
Carl: I like Culver’s, yeah.
Kyle: I was going to say, I feel like they have Culver’s over in Michigan. It’s not like it’s an obsolete thing.
Grant: I don’t think they do, man.
Carl: They do but it’s not on every corner like it is here in Wisconsin.
Andrew: For those of you who don’t know, Carl’s actually my neighbor now. We found out at the Flock Gala that he literally lives in the next building over from me in our condo complex, so I can go over to his house whenever I want. “Hey, I’m out of sugar, Carl. Can I borrow a cup of sugar?”
Carl: That’s really what you’re missing in Belize is that opportunity to borrow a cup of sugar.
Grant: Drew, so you know, Andrew is in Belize right now.
Drew: Oh, man. How’s the weather?
Andrew: It was like 82 and sunny today.
Drew: It was really cool here. The sun came out. I was like, “Oh, life’s going to be okay.”
Kyle: There were a lot of people at the park and people walking their dogs. It was great.
Grant: Boys, in case no one’s told you, it’s supposed to be 80 degrees on Saturday and sunny, so we might actually get a game where we can see some sunshine and not have a driving rainstorm.
Kyle: That would be nice, just a warm game day.
Drew: I might cramp.
Grant: One more final question before we get into the lightning round. Both of you guys can answer this. It means a lot to me, obviously, going there as well. What’s it mean for you guys to potentially play in this game against the Badgers? I’m sure you guys… Do you still keep up with the team even though that now you’ve moved on?
Carl: Believe it or not, Drew and I knew this question was coming. We were talking about it today at training. It’s kind of a changing of the guard at Wisconsin. They have a new coaching staff. None of the players that are there now me and Drew have played with. For me personally, I’ll usually train with them in the off season a little bit, but with the new coaching staff coming in, I did not this year. So I think I can speak for both of us when I say, we are proud Badger alums, but it’s lacking a little bit of connection this time around, I’d say.
Drew: I know Neil fairly well, the new head coach, just from playing against Loyola. He used to come to Fire games all the time. We just always kept in touch. Aaron Hohlbein, I’ve known him since I was a kid. I think I know a few of the players on the team. Yeah, it’s just kind of a weird thing, man. Again, this is like a more bizarre, full circle moment because you go your whole pro career, and then you’re like, “Oh, how did I get back to this place where I’m playing my university team? This is so wild.” What a bizarre thing to get to do. When did that happen in any other sport?
Grant: Tom Brady’s not going and playing in the Michigan spring game any time soon.
Drew: You don’t leave the Badgers and go play in the NFL and then get to play against them with your NFL team. I’m not drawing any sort of comparisons with those leagues or anything like that. Look, it’s going to be a competitive game. They’re going to be really pumped up to play us probably.
Grant: They were last year too.
Drew: It’s a game that we’re going to have to get ourselves up for, and we’re going to have to step up and really, really try and win that game. Also, I think it’s just going to be good to get some minutes for some guys. Like, I’m coming back from this injury. I’m hoping to get a decent amount of time in there to test myself and see how long I can go. I’m sure Carl feels the same way about just getting to play in a game.
Carl: I can’t wait to get out there, man. I watched the Minnesota game in the stands, so I’m very grateful that I’ll be lacing up the boots on Saturday.
Drew: Which is weird. It’s just weird to play against your college team.
Kyle: That definitely makes sense. I got the lightning round questions. The first one is going to be, what music is currently in your rotation right now?
Carl: For me, this is kind of funny, I guess, but I’ve been watching Yellowstone with my girlfriend. I’ve been listening to a lot of cowboy music, not even pop country, like slow country ballads by guys I’ve never heard of.
Grant: I got a name for you then, Lord Huron.
Carl: All right, Lord Huron.
Andrew: Carl, are you talking like, Merle Haggard?
Carl: Yeah.
Andrew: Even Hank Williams or… Chris Stapleton is kind of continuing that trend in the modern era.
Carl: Willie Nelson a little bit. I found a guy named Casey Donahew that I’d never heard of. I like some of his stuff.
Andrew: Cowboy music is very different than country music, for sure.
Carl: It’s kind of sad and kind of depressing.
Drew: Have you guys seen the movie The Buster… or sorry, The Ballad of Buster Scruggs?
Andrew: I love that, partially because Tom Waits plays that prospector. The movie is fantastic.
Drew: I was just talking about that this morning in the training room. I just went to my liked songs. It’s all over the place. I got some Leven Kali here who’s like this groovy, kind of funky electronic stuff. Man, I was just revisiting old Childish Gambino album, that Kauai album.
Kyle: Oh, that’s a great album.
Grant: That’s a great one. It’s got Sober on it, right?
Drew: Yeah, yeah. Then this other album by Two Another called Back to Us, which I recommend that anybody listen to because I think it’s just-
Grant: Two Another is one of the better live acts I’ve actually seen.
Drew: Oh, yeah. My girlfriend got me tickets to go see them live, but then it got canceled because that was right when COVID hit.
Grant: I saw them the tour before, the year before.
Drew: Oh, nice. Yeah, those guys are good.
Kyle: Nice. Then my next question is, what is your favorite film and why?
Drew: I always come back to this one I… I’m not saying it’s the greatest movie of all… It’s, what’s your favorite? I think it’s Whiplash with Miles Teller, the drumming movie. I just think that movie, it’s like a modern Rocky in the sense where it’s like this solo dude trying to do something crazy, an underdog kind of thing.
Grant: Is that the one…? J. K. Simmons, is he the teacher in that one?
Drew: Yes. He reminds me of one of my soccer coaches, so I think it plays on my whole soccer psyche. Carl, what you got?
Carl: I like Tarantino. I like Pulp Fiction. I like the Kill Bill movies. Django is amazing. So one of those.
Drew: Is this like a lightning round where we’re supposed to give one-word answers and it’s supposed to be like bang.
Kyle: No. It’s just quick-ish answers. I don’t know. You’re good. You’re fine. You’re fine. The last one I got is, what was the last book that you read, and did you like it?
Carl: I read the book, I Am Legend.
Grant: Great book.
Carl: I had heard that it’s very different from the movie-
Andrew: Super different.
Carl: … and that is to say the least.
Grant: It’s a lot better too.
Carl: Yep.
Andrew: When his wife shows up at the front door, holy shit.
Carl: And the ending is quite different as well.
Andrew: Yeah.
Grant: Yep.
Drew: Man, the last book I read was The Alchemist. I was reading a bunch of Paulo Coelho.
Grant: Drew, that’s one of my all-time… That’s in my top five favorite books.
Drew: I don’t know what the next one was called, and I never read it. I have all these books in this backpack that I need to read.
Kyle: I did have one quick question for Drew because I notice in the background, in the framing
Grant: Kanye West. I noticed that too.
Kyle: Which one is your favorite?
Drew: My Beautiful Dark Twisted Fantasy.
Grant: It’s a masterpiece, Drew. I agree.
Drew: For me, it goes here, one, this is two (points at The College Dropout)
Grant: Yes, agree.
Drew: … and this is three because I just love Pablo. I thought Pablo was sick.
Grant: See, so I probably would-
Drew: I think everything over here (after Life of Pablo) is bad.
Kyle: We can at least agree on that.
Grant: I’m one of those people, Drew, I was like a hardcore supporter of 808s & Heartbreak.
Kyle: Yeah, that was my number three.
Grant: I love that album.
Drew: It’s so weird. It’s coming back right now, too. Everyone’s listening to it right now, and I don’t know what’s going on. I never got it. I never got it.
Grant: I love that.
Kyle: I have that as my number three. My Beautiful Dark Twisted Fantasy at one.
Grant: That’s my number three, too.
Kyle: I had Late Registration as number two.
Drew: I mean-
Kyle: I think it’s because of the skits. The skits in between kind of set it apart.
Drew: To be honest, they’re all fire. They’re all fire. That’s why you can even have this conversation. What do you even go with?
Grant: It’s like I’ve had this conversation, Drew, with people where it’s like… You can tell where they are in the pantheon of Kanye knowledge because if they only know the crazy Kanye, we’re able to sit there and go, “You know, the man was a genius.” The guy, for a stretch of about 10 years, anything he touched was gold. We’re talking whether he did songs for Drake or Kid Cudi or anyone like that.
Kyle: Or Jay-Z.
Grant: Good music was it for a stretch. It’ll make for an amazing Behind the Music at some point.
Drew: I just watched the documentary. I don’t know. It’s tough to… People get painted in all these different ways. Yeah, he’s definitely made so many mistakes.
Grant: Questionable choices?
Drew: But that’s what happens to some of the greatest artists ever.
Grant: 100%, 100%
Drew: He is exactly like every other once-in-a-generation or even more like that kind of sort of talent. You just go, “Well, yeah, that’s it. That’s him.” Obviously, not condoning any sort of behavior or anything that he does, but the man makes hits. The man makes hits.
Andrew: Drew, but there actually is a Japanese word and this fits me, too, the word is tsundoku, which is “acquiring reading materials but letting them pile up in one’s home without reading them.”
Grant: Oh, dude. If I sent you a picture of the nightstand next to my bed, I have five different books next to my bed. I’m probably only reading one of them right now, but I’m going to get to all five.
Andrew: Oh, I’ll get to them eventually.
Grant: Eventually, just not right now.
Kyle: I should probably get this younger one to bed at some point.
Andrew: Carl, Drew, thank you so much for your time tonight.
Grant: Thanks lads. Appreciate you.
Andrew: Love to make this a thing that we do on a semi-regular basis. I know Carl’s a long-time reader, first-time caller.
Carl: New Dogma for life.
Andrew: There you go. We just appreciate your time tonight. Hopefully, we can do this again sometime.
Drew: Yeah, whenever you guys want it, man. This was fun.
Kyle: Have a good night.
